Prathap Nair: This is Record of Change, a podcast that documents how people’s lives are being shaped by the coronavirus pandemic.
Prathap Nair: I’m Prathap Nair, your host for this episode.
Prathap Nair: Today, we’re talking to Didem Tali, a journalist and multimedia producer who lives in Istanbul.
Prathap Nair: Didem, in her own words, is a multi-hyphenated millennial cliché - we will let her explain what that really entails.
Prathap Nair: In the millennial tradition of turning crises into opportunities, Didem has embraced the lockdown.
Prathap Nair: Didem has issues related to ADHD and says she has developed new coping mechanisms during the lockdown.
Prathap Nair: We will also hear about Turkey’s healthcare system and its handling of the pandemic.
Didem Tali: My name is Didem Tali.
Didem Tali: I’m a multihyphenated journalist and media producer.
Didem Tali: I work for a lot of traditional media outlets that are mainly based in the U S and the UK.
Didem Tali: And I also make documentary films and I am an editorial and communication consultant.
Didem Tali: I'm working as a Managing Editor for the New York based Contently.
Didem Tali: And I do undertake research and sociological analysis projects for nonprofits and companies.
Didem Tali: And I'm working on a novel.
Prathap Nair: I wanted to ask you to explain where you are right now.
Prathap Nair: And I wanted to, you know, paint me a visual picture.
Didem Tali: I've been working from home for almost all my career.
Didem Tali: So I have a dedicated office in my flat.
Didem Tali: So right now I'm in my office.
Didem Tali: I have a beautiful two bedroom flat in the Asian part of Istanbul in a modern neighborhood, which is a trendy neighborhood there.
Didem Tali: I have a lot of things that I want from life, such as my pilates and yoga studios and my vegan buffets and my handmade gourmet chocolates here.
Didem Tali: Have I mentioned, I'm a millennial hipster cliché?
Didem Tali: So it's a very beautiful little neighborhood by the sea.
Didem Tali: And even though right now, it's actually a really crowded neighborhood and it's a very popular neighborhood, especially
Didem Tali: among young people, because it has lots of beautiful and trendy cafes and restaurants scene and entertainment scene.
Didem Tali: And my flat is decorated with a lot of house plants.
Didem Tali: And I am a parent to a row of cacti and succulents, and I have a lot of cat shaped pillows in my house right now.
Didem Tali: I have a few impressionist paintings on my wall, and I have some bookshelves, even though I
Didem Tali: recently moved on from physical books and favoring more and more electronic books, a lot of candles.
Didem Tali: I've been ramping up my house decoration because it looks like we're going to be spending more and more time indoors.
Didem Tali: So we might as well have a nicer environment.
Prathap Nair: Thanks for the beautiful picture that you painted of your neighborhood and your flat.
Prathap Nair: So when this pandemic hit, when the COVID cases started going up, when countries started waking up to the fact that this is
Prathap Nair: the new reality, and that there is going to be a lockdown, where were you before and where were you right when it happened?
Didem Tali: Actually when the current pace started picking up and then this…., when we decided to go
Didem Tali: into lock down, I was in Bodrum, which is a beautiful Mediterranean resort town and Southern Turkey.
Didem Tali: And I arrived in Bodrum thinking that, okay, this is not ideal, but there's this illness and it seems increasingly serious, but it did not occur to me at that time.
Didem Tali: I think it was late February that things would just pick up so quickly and change so drastically.
Didem Tali: Yes, basically.
Didem Tali: I just started to check out little available scientific research about the COVID.
Didem Tali: Then just caught up with the developments around the world and just check statistics and facts and numbers.
Didem Tali: And I concluded that, okay we can't really afford doing much else.
Didem Tali: And in, in the hotel, it was the low season time.
Didem Tali: Obviously there weren't a lot of guests, so it hasn't been very difficult to keep a distance, but there were a few tourists
Didem Tali: and suddenly when everyone was talking about the massages and or the weather or the food that they were eating to, suddenly,
Didem Tali: I could just hear in all the foreign languages; English, Turkish, Russian, Romanian, German - COVID COVID COVID COVID COVID.
Didem Tali: And I thought, okay, the color of their everyday conversations is just changing.
Prathap Nair: Could you give me a picture of how a regular day for you was before the lockdown?
Prathap Nair: So..
Prathap Nair: could you take me through a pre pandemic day?
Didem Tali: Because, as I said, I’m a multihyphenate millennial doing many different things.
Didem Tali: I don't really have that a very typical day.
Didem Tali: I have maybe multiple typical days, some days it's research and I am just relentlessly on the phone and
Didem Tali: emailing back and forth and writing down ideas or interviewing sometimes in person, sometimes on the phone.
Didem Tali: And sometimes I have very long filming days.
Didem Tali: These days typically look like if I'm filming in Istanbul, I pack up and charge all my camera and gifts at night, and then I
Didem Tali: pack everything and then spent the entire day probably just running around, doing the interviews, shooting B-rolls and so on.
Didem Tali: And then, possibly coming home with a backache because the gear is too heavy and I’m a single woman team because I'm just producing everything on my own.
Didem Tali: And I'm also doing a lot of editorial and communication consulting.
Didem Tali: And these projects are all different in nature, but for some clients I'm conducting research and sociological analysis.
Didem Tali: And for some clients I'm publishing B2B magazines and blogs.
Didem Tali: And those days would resemble a bit more of a typical home office day that I just
Didem Tali: wake up and grab my coffee and get dressed and just sit in my office most of the day.
Didem Tali: Because I'm lucky enough to work from home for my entire career.
Didem Tali: I always had those little luxuries of just going for a long lunch, or taking a long walk by the sea during the late afternoon or sometimes just
Didem Tali: taking a day off and taking a boat to the Princess Island in Istanbul, or organizing some trips and sometimes going away on a sailing trip.
Didem Tali: Which is one luxury we have access in Istanbul or having a museum day, you know, all those amazing privileges
Didem Tali: that are brought by being able to work on a flexible schedule from home, but they are gone, unfortunately.
Prathap Nair: Yeah.
Prathap Nair: So now it's all still life.
Prathap Nair: Let's talk about your still life.
Didem Tali: So I am right now, much more of a typical home officer than I used to be.
Prathap Nair: Okay.
Prathap Nair: Okay, when you're working from home, how is it different from working outside in the cafe?
Prathap Nair: Are you feeling yourself more productive?
Prathap Nair: Is there any difference, uh, in the way that you're dealing with your life right now, when you are locked up?
Didem Tali: So I immediately decided that since I would be at home for a long period of
Didem Tali: time - and I'm already used to working from home - so I had certain routines and rituals in place.
Didem Tali: So maybe it wasn't as painful for me to transition into just being at home all the time.
Didem Tali: But it occurred to me pretty early on that I need to have very strict routines and..
Didem Tali: I need to have some kind of a ritual that signals that okay, day is starting right now and the day is over right now.
Didem Tali: I would get dressed and put makeup on and put shoes on as if I'm going out on a dinner
Didem Tali: date, because I realized that you're going to have at least like six months at home, mostly.
Didem Tali: You might as well just identify between what's day and what's night, you know.
Prathap Nair: Okay.
Prathap Nair: Do, did you find any coping mechanisms?
Prathap Nair: You said that you put on makeup and do dress up every day?
Prathap Nair: That sounds like a really good coping mechanism.
Didem Tali: Absolutely.
Didem Tali: So when you put makeup, it feels like you're putting on war paint.
Didem Tali: I definitely think that there's some kind of emotional, evolutionary satisfaction that I personally get from putting some makeup.
Didem Tali: I'm a minimalist.
Didem Tali: I'm not gonna aim to look like Kim Kardashian or something.
Didem Tali: I'll just put red lipstick and maybe a little bit of blush or something, but still that moment
Didem Tali: you have, uh, you're facing yourself in the mirror and you're looking at yourself in the eye.
Didem Tali: And I..I read somewhere that it actually releases Oxytocin as well, which is the bonding hormone, especially,
Didem Tali: if you're able to say a few kind words to yourself in front of the mirror - so I definitely do that.
Prathap Nair: Your work involved a lot of travel, you were going around the world, but now you're cooped up at home.
Prathap Nair: How was work affected because of the lockdown on the pandemic?
Didem Tali: Right.
Didem Tali: I feel like I don't really have a right to complain because..
Didem Tali: of course, my livelihood was impacted and I had to cancel, so many projects, but at the end of
Didem Tali: the day, I'm probably one of the luckier ones that I still have stable work and stable income.
Didem Tali: That being said, I canceled around six international strips.
Didem Tali: And it's not pretty.
Didem Tali: I cancelled so many projects.
Didem Tali: I was preparing to have one of my busiest and most hectic and exciting years, and it turned out to be pretty much the exact opposite.
Didem Tali: Unfortunately.
Didem Tali: And yeah, you see, one of my things is that I have pretty terrible ADHD, so it manifests and every corner of my life, including
Didem Tali: my work projects, I'm doing so many different things that are not necessarily looking like they're connected to each other.
Prathap Nair: Has it somehow flared up in this pandemic and in this lockdown period, your ADHD, has it affected you in any way?
Didem Tali: It's probably a little bit more difficult for a hyperactive person to be indoors all the time.
Didem Tali: And I knew that would be a very big challenge for me.
Didem Tali: And I have a particularly severe case.
Didem Tali: At this level, according to my psychiatric, it's a disability.
Didem Tali: Um, I, a lot of people, particularly of women have an inattentive type ADHD and I'm hyperactive as well.
Didem Tali: I'm physically hyperactive.
Didem Tali: I need to be out and around, like, doing something.
Didem Tali: Just, I don't know if I don't do anything, I just pick my hair or just fidget toys and I'm that person, unfortunately.
Didem Tali: So I had to, I realize that this would be probably slightly more challenging for someone of my profile to just be indoors all the time.
Didem Tali: So I decided to just give a, try to dancing at home, like free dancing.
Didem Tali: I don't know if this sounds like a wannabe Tim Ferris thing, but, I decided to that it was actually my closing of the day ceremony.
Didem Tali: I woke up putting my war paint, my makeup, like my nice and groomed clothes, then doing my hair and that signal the beginning of the day for me.
Didem Tali: And then I would just dance.
Didem Tali: However long I wanted, but I set myself a limit.
Didem Tali: Yeah.
Didem Tali: I'm gonna dance for at least six songs.
Didem Tali: So sometimes it would be 10 songs or so just freely moving around Zumba moves and… I do practice what's called, shamonic shaking.
Didem Tali: I just put some eyepatch on and just shake and move as a ritual.
Didem Tali: And so this was my end of the day ritual once dance, and I just took a shower, I knew that, okay, the day is over.
Didem Tali: Now I can just have a dinner and watch something on Netflix or whatever.
Prathap Nair: You live with your husband Sebastian.
Prathap Nair: Is he a great company to be around during this lockdown?
Prathap Nair: How do you guys, uh, for example, when you're dancing, what does he do?
Prathap Nair: Does he participate?
Didem Tali: He just watches me because he's just not the type of person who finds it easy to do these rituals, but actually he's been great.
Didem Tali: And I think we're probably a bit luckier than average because we've been both freelancers
Didem Tali: for much of our careers and have been working from home for a long period of time.
Didem Tali: So we’re kind of used to each other's company in that way.
Didem Tali: I have no idea how I would survive without him.
Didem Tali: I've been hearing about reports of people who don't find it as easy going as we do.
Didem Tali: I read people like, oh my God, I didn't know my partner before we started living together and locked down…but I
Didem Tali: feel that spending such an intense and long period of time might accelerate the natural evolution of a relationship.
Didem Tali: I think if there are some fault lines in the relationship, if there are some grievances or unaddressed
Didem Tali: issues or concerns, they are probably gonna come to the surface when you're spending so much time together.
Didem Tali: And I feel that if your relationship is based on solid foundations, if it's meant to be a longterm and healthy
Didem Tali: relationship, you probably start appreciating your partner loving them even more when you're just stuck together.
Prathap Nair: Exactly.
Didem Tali: And it's been, yeah, I don't want to do this so much lovey-dovey partner gushing right now, but it's been definitely the latter for me.
Prathap Nair: Yeah.
Prathap Nair: So that needs to be acknowledged.
Didem Tali: Yeah, absolutely.
Didem Tali: I mean, having a long-term and healthy life partner definitely makes everything so much easier.
Prathap Nair: Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.
Prathap Nair: Little mercies, right?
Didem Tali: Yeah, absolutely.
Prathap Nair: And how is, how is the mood in Istanbul Didem?
Prathap Nair: Does anyone in your circle have COVID?
Prathap Nair: How is it, how are people behaving to COVID?
Prathap Nair: Are they keeping social distancing, are they wearing masks?
Prathap Nair: How is it to be in Istanbul right now?
Didem Tali: So despite the easing of the lockdowns and regulations, I've been still cautious.
Didem Tali: I'm not going out unless I absolutely have to or I take some responsible day trips here and there and just mainly
Didem Tali: outdoors, but we had a good progress with a good progress with the cases, but they've been on the rise again.
Didem Tali: So a lot of people are quite worried…
Prathap Nair: Yeah, it seems like, the second wave is on us.
Prathap Nair: It's everywhere.
Didem Tali: Yeah.
Didem Tali: So we just had a big religious festival Eid, Kurban Bayramı and in the Christian world, this would be the equivalent of Christmas or Easter.
Didem Tali: And there were no lockdowns for this period.
Didem Tali: So I am expecting to see a spike in the number of the cases in the coming two weeks.
Didem Tali: I have to say Turkey has an excellent public health system, especially given the country's resources.
Didem Tali: And it's a country that still experiencing a lot of very typical developmental problems, but we have a wonderful public health universal public health care system.
Didem Tali: And all the treatments and testing and everything related to COVID, they have been all absolutely free for everyone, even if you're not a citizen.
Didem Tali: So in that case, we get a lot of cutting edge, great hospitals, in that case it hasn't been a strain like a lot of other countries.
Didem Tali: I am definitely confident in the healthcare system.
Didem Tali: Of course, it's not flawless.
Didem Tali: And we have a lot of other obvious issues.
Didem Tali: It's under-resourced and people have their cynicism, but I think that it's such a pity that even someone like me
Didem Tali: who has never supported this government, I'm always happy to acknowledge that we have a great healthcare system.
Didem Tali: I've been around the world.
Didem Tali: I been intimately analyzing a lot of the other healthcare systems around the world in both advanced economies and emerging markets.
Didem Tali: And I can see that Turkey really, especially considering its level of economic development, got this one thing right.
Prathap Nair: Okay.
Didem Tali: But still I think it’s such a shame because to me, something like this would have been at great opportunity to reduce the polarization
Didem Tali: and restore some trust in the government because, I feel that in a lot of the rest of the world, there was a synergy and a moment of solidarity within
Didem Tali: the committees brought by COVID, people collecting in my neighborhood every day at 9:00 PM for healthcare workers, cannot not give you goosebumps.
Didem Tali: Suddenly we all started to appreciate each other from the janitor to the delivery persons.
Prathap Nair: Yeah.
Prathap Nair: There's a sense of solidarity..
Didem Tali: Absolutely so, and Turkey right now is the most polarized, one of the most polarized countries in the world.
Didem Tali: And I thought, especially given how great the healthcare system is, this would be a,
Didem Tali: this could be a great opportunity to reduce those polarizations and restore trust.
Didem Tali: I'm happy to acknowledge the country has a very good healthcare system.
Didem Tali: And I'm seeing this compared to so many places that I've lived and traveled then, but it's just such a pity that we decided to go in a different direction.
Didem Tali: I wish we were able to match the greatness of other things.
Didem Tali: This quite optimized health care system, given a country of, I think about a country of fair GDP per capita with around $10,000,
Didem Tali: I wish we could optimize other freedoms and other resources they have, but unfortunately, it's not going to be the case.
Prathap Nair: Yeah.
Prathap Nair: Are there any rules on masks?
Prathap Nair: Should people be wearing masks outdoors?
Didem Tali: So I believe it's still mandatory to wear masks and people have been largely following that, but of course there are
Didem Tali: going to be people who are not happy with that and not going to be super disciplined with their habits of social distancing and so on.
Didem Tali: But actually, I would say in the places that I've been so far, I've seen most people trying to adhere to it, but then I'm, to be honest, not going up that much.
Didem Tali: I also heard the reports that during the holidays, the religious holidays beaches were packed and people were acting irresponsibly.
Prathap Nair: Um, well then any, disruption to supplies, for example, here, pasta, flour, things like that, were in short supply for a longtime.
Didem Tali: I think that's a very German thing to do, to be honest.
Didem Tali: There was this really funny moment.
Didem Tali: There were some days they would announce a weekend lockdown on Fridays and people in my neighborhood definitely have their priorities straight.
Didem Tali: So I'm living in front of a supermarket and, uh, corner shop that sells booze basically…and, after the lockdown was announced, there
Didem Tali: were some people buying water and basic necessities from the supermarket, and there was a massive queue in front of the booze shop.
Prathap Nair: Okay.
Prathap Nair: Yeah.
Prathap Nair: This was the experience and other parts of the world also.
Prathap Nair: Yeah, I agree.
Prathap Nair: Yeah.
Prathap Nair: People need it.
Didem Tali: Yeah, absolutely.
Didem Tali: Another ritual that I had was Sebastian cooked a really fancy meal every Sunday and Saturday.
Didem Tali: So that was pretty nice because also that was something to ritualize that okay, the week is over, now, it's the weekend.
Didem Tali: I know you can't tell.
Didem Tali: I know it feels like it's irrelevant, but now - good food and wine, and you can relax for two days.
Prathap Nair: Wow.
Prathap Nair: So you created these little rituals for yourself?
Didem Tali: Yes.
Didem Tali: I inspired him to dress well as well.
Didem Tali: I mean, obviously he's German, so he doesn't have my sense of style or refined sense of high fashion, you know, but every little helps.
Prathap Nair: Definitely.
Prathap Nair: So, Didem, how do you foresee your projects will pan out in the future?
Didem Tali: I really don't know at this point.
Didem Tali: Sometimes I get really upset about thinking, is this it like, is this the end of my journalism career?
Didem Tali: Because obviously I have other things going on.
Didem Tali: I have some plans already.
Didem Tali: I'm finally able to work on another short documentary.
Didem Tali: I'm following a collective of Syrian refugee women who are opening up their food and healthy eating enterprise right now.
Didem Tali: And I'm gonna follow them.
Didem Tali: That's going to be one project that still gives me a lot of excitement.
Didem Tali: And I have some ongoing consulting and editorial engagements going on, which are great and stimulating projects.
Didem Tali: But I have no idea when I'm going to be able to get back to my traditional reporting and foreign correspondence.
Didem Tali: So don't know, really, I sometimes I try to stay optimistic, but sometimes I feel like there are careers that just stifle a cough and die.
Didem Tali: Because well one problem is that I read that about 3000 creative jobs in the U S are being lost every day and being a
Didem Tali: journalist, working for the English language media that's of course our careers are very much adjacent to the US economy.
Didem Tali: So I feel like a lot of us will have to start from scratch because a lot of our editorial
Didem Tali: contacts are laid off or gone or they are having an election coming up this year, fingers crossed.
Didem Tali: So there is not going to be a massive amount of interest in the rest of the world, but hopefully there are always going to be interesting stories for us to tell.
Didem Tali: And I just think that no matter what happens, we are gonna find a way to carve our own paths and do our things.
Prathap Nair: How do you think the world will look like Didem after we regain all our freedoms.
Prathap Nair: Do you have any thoughts on that?
Didem Tali: I am very worried about the implication of COVID on the authoritarianism.
Didem Tali: It's already been a global trend that manifested in my part of world as well.
Didem Tali: Actually, I would say we were the flag carriers as the first western nation to succumb to the increasingly rising archetype of the charismatic populist leader.
Didem Tali: And we see that in times of uncertainty that’s a very attractive premise for lots of people.
Didem Tali: And I describe authoritarianism as a preexisting condition for COVID to thrive.
Prathap Nair: Yeah.
Prathap Nair: I agree.
Prathap Nair: So there is no lockdown in Turkey right now.
Prathap Nair: Is there?
Didem Tali: Not right now, but I'm not sure how the cases are going to be.
Didem Tali: I feel that the second wave is loading.
Didem Tali: I mean, numbers are rising slowly.
Didem Tali: I think an issue that’s as big as public health is that people just don't trust the data anymore.
Didem Tali: They don't trust the government.
Didem Tali: As far as I could tell Germany, for example, certain countries have allowed travelers.
Didem Tali: And I could see that there were countries in that list that actually did way worse than Turkey
Didem Tali: that had way poorer healthcare system and had many more cases and, um, sketchy things going on.
Didem Tali: But Turkey wasn't in that list that was allowed.
Didem Tali: And when I heard that I was a bit angry because I know that Germany has certain tendencies.
Didem Tali: Sometimes I feel that Germans have hostile attitudes towards Turkey.
Didem Tali: So I was a little bit angry with that when I heard that, because I interpreted that as a manifestation of racism.
Didem Tali: But then I thought, sure, we have a great healthcare system and it's been handled relatively well, but they just don't trust the figures.
Didem Tali: They don't trust the data.
Didem Tali: Can you blame them?
Didem Tali: No.
Prathap Nair: Yeah, I know what you mean.
Prathap Nair: Yeah.
Prathap Nair: I understand.
Prathap Nair: I just have one question.
Prathap Nair: What do you think the immediate future for us is going to look like for the next three months?
Prathap Nair: You think the status quo is going to remain the same?
Didem Tali: I think most of us are still going to be in the survival mode.
Didem Tali: I'm just taking it one day, one project at a time, really.
Didem Tali: And I am just revising my plans and my options every week.
Didem Tali: So it's just so difficult to say how things are gonna to look like in three months, because it's difficult to be shocked nowadays.
Prathap Nair: It's like nothing can shock us anymore.
Prathap Nair: Yeah.
Prathap Nair: Did you see that news piece about Emirates offering funeral services for their loyalty members?
Didem Tali: Yes.
Didem Tali: I saw that.
Didem Tali: Actually I think I saw it on your Twitter when you shared it.
Didem Tali: I thought every day I'm seeing more and more headlines that just capture that absurdity of, yeah, okay - another previously unsaid sentence in human history.
Didem Tali: Emirates is gonna fund your funeral if you die of COVID.
Didem Tali: That is just so late-stage capitalism.
Didem Tali: Isn't it?
Prathap Nair: Yeah.
Prathap Nair: Yeah, exactly.
Prathap Nair: Exactly.
Prathap Nair: That's late stage capitalism.
Prathap Nair: Yeah.
Didem Tali: That level of absurdity can only happen with this kind of a neoliberal global economy.
Prathap Nair: So yeah on that note, thank you very much for your time.
Didem Tali: Thank you so much for your interest in my millennials, cliché life and habits.
Prathap Nair: That was Didem Tali.
Prathap Nair: We will check back with her in the second season.
Prathap Nair: Next week, a couple from Hong Kong left for Canada to sit out the pandemic as the virus raged in China.
Prathap Nair: But soon enough, circumstances forced them to return to Hong Kong.
Prathap Nair: In the process, the virus they wanted to avoid caught up with them on the plane.
Prathap Nair: The story of Wenni and Dominic.
Prathap Nair: Stay tuned.
Prathap Nair: Follow us on your favourite Podcast provider and look for us on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube or our website, recordofchange.com.
Prathap Nair: This podcast is implemented by and with members of the Bosch Alumni Network.