Stephanie Raible: Hello, everyone!
Stephanie Raible: You are listening to Record of Change, Season Two.
Stephanie Raible: My name is Stephanie Raible, and I am your host for this episode.
Stephanie Raible: Record of Change listens to stories of individuals from across the world to hear about how their lives are being impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic.
Stephanie Raible: We listen to our interviewees at several points in time as we are eager to learn about how their lives are changing.
Stephanie Raible: Today, I am speaking to you from Delaware, a state in the Mid-Atlantic region of the United States.
Stephanie Raible: This episode was recorded in the thick of the holiday season, with Thanksgiving being this week.
Stephanie Raible: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention ,or CDC, has advised the country against all holiday travel this season to avoid the spread of COVID-19.
Stephanie Raible: Many are staying home, many are seeing extended family with the support of testing and being cautious,
Stephanie Raible: and others are throwing caution to the wind due to feeling exhausted and isolated from loved ones.
Stephanie Raible: Today, we will hear more from McKenzie Roller, an 18-year-old from Connecticut—which in the Northeast—who taking
Stephanie Raible: a gap year in between college and high school to work with organizations who she feels do impactful things.
Stephanie Raible: We are catching her at the end of her—almost three-month stay in Wilmington, North Carolina, where she has been working
Stephanie Raible: with Vote.org, a national non-partisan organization that helps to register and inform eligible voters across the country.
Stephanie Raible: In this episode, she will talk to us about her impressions of living in the American South, she will share her exciting experiences
Stephanie Raible: of working with Vote.org leading up to the Presidential Election, she will shed some light on what it’s like to grow up in a
Stephanie Raible: time of political division in the United States, and she will let us into her holiday plans and where we will find her next.
Stephanie Raible: But, first, if you like our show, please make sure to subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform, follow us on social media—we have
Stephanie Raible: active accounts on Instagram, Twitter, and now Facebook—and check out our website for information on our team and all of our guests.
Stephanie Raible: For our super fans, starting this month, we launched a Patreon page, so if you want to support our work and shows, please consider membership.
Stephanie Raible: We are grateful for whatever way you engage with us.
Stephanie Raible: So, now, let’s hear from McKenzie.
Stephanie Raible: So, Mckenzie, hi!
Stephanie Raible: Welcome.
Stephanie Raible: I can imagine the last few months have been really interesting.
Stephanie Raible: Last time we spoke, you had just moved to North Carolina.
Stephanie Raible: You were, I think, the next day, going to start your new internship at Vote.org, and so, we're now about two months past that point.
Stephanie Raible: What's life been like over the last couple months?
McKenzie Roller: I can't believe it's been two months.
McKenzie Roller: I feel like time has passed so weird, between just being in the new place, living on my own, and adjusting to a different work schedule, things like that.
McKenzie Roller: Like time has flown by, like, I couldn't tell you that October even happened.
McKenzie Roller: Things have been really good.
McKenzie Roller: I've been learning a lot about myself, about the elections, about Wilmington, where I'm living . Been
McKenzie Roller: meeting a lot of people and trying to form some real connections, which has been incredible.
McKenzie Roller: And that's what makes it hard to leave a place.
McKenzie Roller: Right?
McKenzie Roller: So, today's actually my last day in Wilmington, which is, I can't believe that already happened.
McKenzie Roller: So, that's what makes it hard to leave: it's those connections that you formed and things like that.
McKenzie Roller: So, life has been good.
McKenzie Roller: I'm happy to say that it's hard for me to leave because that means my time here was meaningful.
McKenzie Roller: Been feeling like I'm doing some meaningful work through Vote.org and through the nonprofit that I've been working with in Wilmington.
McKenzie Roller: Grateful to have this opportunity to be on this gap year and doing this work because not sure what it would be like at school right now.
Stephanie Raible: You were mentioning something about figuring things out about yourself.
Stephanie Raible: So, as an 18 year old, who's living independently for the first time and your experience in Wilmington, North Carolina.
Stephanie Raible: Can you tell me a little bit about what that's like, in terms of, what have you been learning about yourself?
McKenzie Roller: I can be somewhere new or trying somewhere new and figure it out and then it will be okay.
McKenzie Roller: And like, new is not bad or scary.
McKenzie Roller: I mean, I can be a little bit scary, but , like I'll figure it out.
McKenzie Roller: And that's something, I think, I've been learning since like the beginning of COVID, honestly, when things kept changing it a day and,
McKenzie Roller: just rolling with it and figuring out what's next, but really being on my own and in a new place, with like having to reform community,
McKenzie Roller: and things like that . Knowing that I can do it, that makes me more confident, I think, in who I am and my ability to face change.
McKenzie Roller: I think that's been huge.
McKenzie Roller: I realized what a bubble I grew up in, too.
McKenzie Roller: Like, I have never really spent any like much meaningful time outside of Connecticut,
McKenzie Roller: where I grew up and grew up in a small town, went to a small school for high school.
McKenzie Roller: I went to a boarding school, so I met people from all over the world.
McKenzie Roller: But just realizing how small my bubble was and being in a new place, meeting new people, having conversations with everyone I meet.
McKenzie Roller: Realizing that my walk of life is just so completely different than everyone else's, and that's not like a bad thing, it's just understanding.
McKenzie Roller: And , I think I knew that intellectually, but just like having real personal connections
McKenzie Roller: with people from completely different walks of life . That's been super eye opening too.
Stephanie Raible: I feel like based on our conversation last time, that sounded like that
Stephanie Raible: was actually one of your goals in this year that you wanted to open up your perspective.
Stephanie Raible: So, thinking back to even the winter time, you really wanted to do, an abroad gap year . And when that seemed to close, this came up.
Stephanie Raible: And so , it's interesting that you get to feel like you're learning so much within your own country.
Stephanie Raible: Can you talk a little bit about things like friendships and the people that you've met while in Wilmington?
McKenzie Roller: Yeah , well, first within the United States, there's so much difference.
McKenzie Roller: Every place you go is going to be different.
McKenzie Roller: Culturally, there are going to be similarities between where you're from and where you're living, but there's always going to be differences
McKenzie Roller: . So, that's been eye opening too.
McKenzie Roller: Like you don't have to leave the country to get any perspective or, or learn something new.
McKenzie Roller: But, in my time ,here, some of my closest relationships are with my roommates, who I got really lucky to be with them.
McKenzie Roller: I didn't meet them until I got here , and they've been amazing.
McKenzie Roller: They're two juniors at the University of North Carolina Wilmington.
McKenzie Roller: I have the best time with them.
McKenzie Roller: So, that was really just lucky and they're great friends and people.
McKenzie Roller: I joined a crossfit gym and one of the coaches, she was like wanting to go to church with me one day, and I was
McKenzie Roller: like, 'I'm not super religious, so thank you.' And she was like, 'No, you could still come.' And I was like,
McKenzie Roller: 'Okay , I'll go with you.' My family is Christian, but I just feel religion has never been a huge part of my life.
McKenzie Roller: And we went to church that day and then went out to brunch after.
McKenzie Roller: And, we stayed super connected.
McKenzie Roller: She's like 50, but we were like friends.
McKenzie Roller: We connected over church in a way that like that's never happened in my life before church is completely different here than like in Connecticut.
McKenzie Roller: There's just a much bigger population of people that goes to church on a regular basis here, at least from what I've experienced here.
McKenzie Roller: That's been great.
McKenzie Roller: I've spent a lot of time with an activist, and she was incredible.
McKenzie Roller: Like, she let me basically follow her around and just learn from her and every space she was in.
McKenzie Roller: And I have learned so much from her about what, like actual community led leadership looks like and the
McKenzie Roller: community led change and, what it means to work within the community, to create some real lasting sustainable.
McKenzie Roller: Change that the community needs, not that someone else thinks they need.
McKenzie Roller: So, these are all like incredible relationships that I am really lucky to have formed.
McKenzie Roller: And some of them are just like personal friendships.
McKenzie Roller: Some of them were, I was learning tons of like actual, , tangible things.
McKenzie Roller: I've learned a lot from everyone, but...
McKenzie Roller: Yeah.
McKenzie Roller: I was really lucky to meet such amazing people here.
Stephanie Raible: I think it's so interesting we happen to catch you on both sides of this Wilmington experience.
Stephanie Raible: I feel like it's such a lucky perspective to document your time here, especially on your last day.
Stephanie Raible: You were there for the purpose of working with Vote.org.
Stephanie Raible: Can you talk a little bit about that experience?
McKenzie Roller: Yeah, so I joined Vote.org just about a month before November 3rd, so Election Day in the United States.
McKenzie Roller: Vote.org is an online, tech-based company that supports voters in ensuring that they have the right to vote and access to vote, so what we were doing at that
McKenzie Roller: point was making sure as many people were registered to vote as possible, making sure that people knew how to vote because COVID has made some things weird in
McKenzie Roller: the United States about what polling stations are going to look like because you have the option to vote in person, you have the option to vote by mail, and
McKenzie Roller: in some States, you can only vote by mail if you have like a valid excuse, like not being in the state or the country or something at the time of the election.
McKenzie Roller: And only some States would allow you to use COVID-19 as an excuse, like it depended state to state because
McKenzie Roller: States each have their own laws around elections or around the election and how that exactly happens.
McKenzie Roller: We did a lot of ' plan your vote' campaigns, and then also Vote.org specifically focuses on reaching hard to hard to reach voters.
McKenzie Roller: So voters that don't necessarily vote as consistently as other groups of people, or face more barriers to vote than other groups of people.
McKenzie Roller: That means young people and people of color are the main targets of Vote.org, to make
McKenzie Roller: sure that they have access to voting and in making their voice heard in the election.
McKenzie Roller: There are a couple of partnerships and programs that we were running to reach those veterans.
McKenzie Roller: Like we, started a WhatsApp bot in Spanish that people could text to figure out how to register to vote and
McKenzie Roller: things like that, to make sure that people who spoke Spanish also had access to the same tools and resources.
McKenzie Roller: We had food trucks out to like give people food and to also be there with the voter hotline number
McKenzie Roller: on it because sometimes, there's voter suppression and intimidation that happens in pole lines.
McKenzie Roller: So, making sure that that number is available to people, if they needed to ever call.
McKenzie Roller: So, those were like some of the some of the things you're doing.
McKenzie Roller: There's so much more.
McKenzie Roller: Like this program.
McKenzie Roller: It's a small team of people, but running so many programs across the country.
McKenzie Roller: It was incredible.
McKenzie Roller: I don't remember what our numbers were, but we reached millions and millions of voters for this election.
McKenzie Roller: And that made a difference, which is so cool.
McKenzie Roller: We had the largest voter turnout in the United States that we've had in over a hundred years, like since before women could vote.
McKenzie Roller: We had over 66% of eligible voters in the United States vote this year, which is unheard of in recent elections, which
McKenzie Roller: is so exciting because democracy only works when everyone's voice is heard and when everyone's voice can be heard.
McKenzie Roller: So, 66 is still not the ideal number, but that's way higher than it's been in the United States in years, which is incredible.
McKenzie Roller: So, everyone at Vote.org works remotely.
McKenzie Roller: We work across the country from our homes and things like that.
McKenzie Roller: So, what I was doing, I would help write the newsletter that went out to donors.
McKenzie Roller: I would help keep some websites up to date., Then do some research for what strategy we should be using, like who we should be targeting, things like that.
McKenzie Roller: I help specifically with an electionday.org initiative where Vote.org was getting companies to sign on to guarantee paid time off, to vote to employees because
McKenzie Roller: one of the biggest reasons that people don't vote is because they feel like they're going to lose part of their paycheck to take off the time to go vote.
McKenzie Roller: So, a big way to increase voter turnout is to have bigger companies guarantee that their
McKenzie Roller: employees will still get paid while they're at the polls to vote and encouraging that.
McKenzie Roller: So, I helped a lot with that and like which companies will be the most.
McKenzie Roller: Impactful to get to sign on,
McKenzie Roller: Going up to November 3rd, it was 'go, go, go, go, go ' all the time.
McKenzie Roller: And it was impressive about how many different programs and things each of the people on the team was running.
Stephanie Raible: Can you tell us any stories that help to illustrate some of the meaningful work?
Stephanie Raible: Are there any stories that stick out to you about this time
McKenzie Roller: So electionday.org was a campaign to get those companies to sign on to give guaranteed paid
McKenzie Roller: time off to their employees to vote the goal had been set to get a thousand companies to sign on by Election
McKenzie Roller: Day, and the Friday before like the Tuesday that the election was happening , we were at 800-something companies.
McKenzie Roller: And we were like, 'We're not gonna make it.
McKenzie Roller: This is so frustrating.
McKenzie Roller: We're going to get so close and we're not going to reach a thousand'.
McKenzie Roller: And we sent out one final push to our network, and I'm the one that updates all the companies online.
McKenzie Roller: And I woke up Monday, good morning, and there were, so, so many form submissions.
McKenzie Roller: And I was like, 'This is amazing, but like now it's time to sort through it all'.
McKenzie Roller: And I was sitting in the car because I was on a road trip that day.
McKenzie Roller: And sitting in the car, on my computer, putting in like going through each company because you got to make sure that
McKenzie Roller: they're a real company submitted by someone who has the authority to submit it submitted with like actual company policy.
McKenzie Roller: You have to make sure that they actually meet the criteria.
McKenzie Roller: And I was sitting in the car and going through all of these finally updated the website,
McKenzie Roller: and we were at like 1031 companies and I got to send that in the group messaging.
McKenzie Roller: And that was so exciting and like the excitement from my colleagues who've been working on this for months was amazing.
McKenzie Roller: Like it was, and it was literally like 'Election Eve' like it was the night before the election.
McKenzie Roller: And we finally hit that goal.
McKenzie Roller: When we put the numbers together, as many as 1.8 million employees were impacted by that campaign, which is just so incredible.
McKenzie Roller: And, that moment was awesome sitting in the car, and we reached a thousand companies.
McKenzie Roller: Like we did it, literally hours before election day.
McKenzie Roller: So, Election Day was interesting because it was like, the programs were all building up to Election Day, and Election
McKenzie Roller: Day was like, 'Let's just make sure everything runs smoothly because the program is we're building up to that moment'.
Stephanie Raible: And so, just to remind everyone, you're not originally from North Carolina, you're originally from Connecticut.
Stephanie Raible: How did you vote this year?
McKenzie Roller: Yeah.
McKenzie Roller: So I voted by mail.
McKenzie Roller: I voted absentee in Connecticut because I wasn't in the state at the time of the election.
McKenzie Roller: You had to request an absentee ballot.
McKenzie Roller: The ballot gets sent to you.
McKenzie Roller: You fill it out, and you send it back, which is what a lot of people ended up doing this year because of COVID.
McKenzie Roller: So, that's what I ended up doing.
McKenzie Roller: It was interesting for me too because one of the things Vote.org works on is making sure that everyone has access to all of these different things.
McKenzie Roller: And Connecticut is one of the States where you're required to actually print out a form online and fill it out and send it in.
McKenzie Roller: So, I had to find a printer because I didn't have a printer.
McKenzie Roller: Luckily, my apartment complex office does that we can use.
McKenzie Roller: I had to find a printer.
McKenzie Roller: I had to find stamps.
McKenzie Roller: None of the supermarkets here had stamps, which I was like, 'Hmm, that's not good'.
McKenzie Roller: And um, and I had to go buy envelopes.
McKenzie Roller: So, I spent like $15 and had to find a printer.
McKenzie Roller: And luckily, I have access to those things, but I was like, I know that there are so many people that wouldn't ever be able to do this.
McKenzie Roller: That barrier to vote: this is why I'm working with Vote.org.
McKenzie Roller: This is why this is happening.
McKenzie Roller: Some States like, luckily in Connecticut, that's only for the absentee ballots.
McKenzie Roller: Some States still do that for registering to vote.
McKenzie Roller: Like, you have to print a form out to even register to vote.
McKenzie Roller: The systems need to be updated and everything should be able to everything to be able to be done online, that makes it easier and more accessible to everyone.
McKenzie Roller: There are barriers to do that, and it takes time.
McKenzie Roller: But that was an experience for sure.
McKenzie Roller: I was like, this is why Vote.org.
McKenzie Roller: This is -- this work is meaningful because I had barriers to voting when I really like, and I had access
McKenzie Roller: to a lot of resources and still I had had the challenge to, to actually be able to vote this year.
Stephanie Raible: So yeah, it's, it was incredibly tricky this year, but I think it was
Stephanie Raible: actually really successful because if you figure the voter turnout was so impressive.
Stephanie Raible: I know folks that are listening from other countries are probably thinking 66% is not anything
Stephanie Raible: to speak of because there are some countries that require all registered voters to vote.
Stephanie Raible: You are currently living in a state, that was very 'up in the air' as a 'purple' state , but
Stephanie Raible: especially for an international audience, they're looking from outside and they see a lot of chaos.
Stephanie Raible: They see a lot of polarization within the country, a lot of division.
Stephanie Raible: Can you speak to that?
Stephanie Raible: Is that something that you witnessed
Stephanie Raible: ? McKenzie Roller: Absolutely.
Stephanie Raible: Coming from Connecticut, Connecticut goes 'blue' every year.
Stephanie Raible: So it goes to the Democratic party every single year in the election , most recent years, it has gone to the Democratic party.
Stephanie Raible: There's not as much as that of that polarization felt necessarily in my immediate connections there, and coming here and being surrounded by people who..
Stephanie Raible: Like, it is 'purple'.
Stephanie Raible: So, you're living with people who, some people voted for Trump, some people voted for Biden, and some people didn't vote.
Stephanie Raible: And like, it's all right next to each other instead of being like separated into little bubbles in Connecticut.
Stephanie Raible: Here it's like in your face.
Stephanie Raible: Wilmington is super divided itself.
Stephanie Raible: Like Downtown, there was a big 'Wilmington for Trump' billboard right next to like signs for like 'Vote for Biden'.
Stephanie Raible: And, just even in my own personal interactions, when someone say like, 'Oh, I'm voting for Trump' or 'I'm voting for Biden', the mood changes in the room.
Stephanie Raible: And I was having conversations about that with people it's never been like that really in any other election in the United States.
Stephanie Raible: Like sometimes, it's like, there are some people that still consider it rude to ask who you're voting for , and so it's really weird that
Stephanie Raible: in this election, people were so willing to share and ask because people see it, I think, as a defining piece of who you are right now.
Stephanie Raible: Like, this election, who you voted for, people are viewing it with the weight.
Stephanie Raible: Like what are your morals is kind of what some people are viewing this election as holding that weight, which creates polarization.
Stephanie Raible: If you think that someone's voting, against your morals or like against what you value as like basic human traits and not just like how to handle taxes.
Stephanie Raible: Like if you think that that's something on the ballot, that's going to create polarization.
Stephanie Raible: And that's kind of what the selection felt like.
Stephanie Raible: People put a lot of meaning into what your vote said about who you are as person this year.
Stephanie Raible: right or wrong.
Stephanie Raible: I've just, I think that happened this year.
Stephanie Raible: And it was clear that, who you're voting for, mattered on a different level than it has in the past.
Stephanie Raible: Like, it wasn't just politics.
Stephanie Raible: It was like more meaningful than that to a lot of people.
Stephanie Raible: So, definitely felt it . I was really actually grateful to be here though because I am
Stephanie Raible: someone who believes that you have to be able to have conversations with both sides.
Stephanie Raible: Like 47% of people voted for Trump.
Stephanie Raible: 50% voted for Biden.
Stephanie Raible: That is a very close election.
Stephanie Raible: And for people to say, 'I'm not going to talk to them because they voted for Trump' or 'I'm not going to talk to them because they voted for Biden'.
Stephanie Raible: Our country can't survive that, and we have to be able to have respectful, meaningful conversations with people we disagree with.
Stephanie Raible: We need to, we need to get there.
Stephanie Raible: I don't think, I think that's going to take time, but half of the country cannot just ignore the other half of the country.
Stephanie Raible: That's just not going to work.
Stephanie Raible: It's interesting.
Stephanie Raible: I'm even thinking, from my perspective, of what it would be like to be young during this time.
Stephanie Raible: What is it like to grow up in such a divided, or perceived divided, country with people unfriending each
Stephanie Raible: other on Facebook because they're of different parties ? What's it like to grow up in a time like that?
McKenzie Roller: I mean, I don't totally remember anything different.
McKenzie Roller: Like the first, my freshman year of high school was the Trump versus Clinton election, which was also super divided and polarized.
McKenzie Roller: Not like this, but it was kind of the start of that polarization.
McKenzie Roller: I'm someone who is involved in politics, and the election and follows it.
McKenzie Roller: So, some of this is in my life because I am interested in it and do try to stay informed about it.
McKenzie Roller: But social media, there's politics, like people post it on their stories, like who you're voting for things like that.
McKenzie Roller: I think it's everywhere I look right now, but that's also because I think about it all the time, like I said, so I don't know.
McKenzie Roller: I think my generation is more willing to speak up about their political beliefs.
McKenzie Roller: I think that's a big difference.
McKenzie Roller: We are being raised in a time when it is okay to ask people who you're voting for and to tell people who you're voting for, like that happened in this election.
McKenzie Roller: And for a lot of older generations, that's like disrespectful to even consider telling or asking who you're voting for.
McKenzie Roller: In our generation, it's like normal and you it's part of how you get to know someone it's like, ''Oh yeah, this is my friend.
McKenzie Roller: And they voted for like Biden or Trump, like whatever it is.
McKenzie Roller: And that, that changes the way that people view each other right now.
Stephanie Raible: Would you say that when you meet someone who is also young and you find out that they voted for
Stephanie Raible: someone that you think is a little more problematic, do you see friends or yourself pulling away from that person?
Stephanie Raible: Is that the dynamic, or is it something where people are interested in hearing why?
McKenzie Roller: I think it changes depending on which side of the argument you're on
McKenzie Roller: because , for a lot of people, voting for Trump meant voting against a lot of basic human rights.
McKenzie Roller: That's how they viewed this election.
McKenzie Roller: So, for people who believe that, and meet Trump supporters are like, 'No, I don't want to talk to you.
McKenzie Roller: Like, I don't believe that you're a good person'.
McKenzie Roller: Things like that.
McKenzie Roller: ,I think, for a lot of people who supported Trump and not Biden, it's like, 'The media is blowing this out of proportions.
McKenzie Roller: Stop being brainwashed'.
McKenzie Roller: That's like almost the other side , at least from what I've experienced again in my life.
McKenzie Roller: And so, I think it depends on the person.
McKenzie Roller: I think is what it comes down to.
McKenzie Roller: I think some people are like, 'We disagree on too much.
McKenzie Roller: I don't want to talk to you.
McKenzie Roller: I don't think we're going to be able to even respect each other because we disagree on some really basic things'.
McKenzie Roller: I think that happens.
McKenzie Roller: And so people don't even try.
McKenzie Roller: Personally, I would love to have conversations with everyone.
McKenzie Roller: I meet about why they're voting for who they're voting for, and to try to understand the other side because I
McKenzie Roller: believe so strongly in my beliefs that like, 'how do you, how did you get there and how did you, how do you have
McKenzie Roller: like a completely different set of beliefs than I do?' Like, not that it's wrong, but like tell me about it.
McKenzie Roller: And I love having those conversations.
McKenzie Roller: I think it's important to have those conversations.
McKenzie Roller: Yes, there are some things that I..
McKenzie Roller: that if I disagree with someone on it, we're probably not going to get very far.
McKenzie Roller: And like, how personally we connect and things like that.
McKenzie Roller: Because that happens.
McKenzie Roller: Like, if you disagree on some really big things, that that makes stuff difficult moving forward.
McKenzie Roller: But I think it's still important to understand where the other side is coming from, and that doesn't always happen right now.
McKenzie Roller: I think I'm in the minority for sure on that.
McKenzie Roller: And I've had friends who are like, 'How are you even talking to them'?
McKenzie Roller: And I'm like, 'You have to.
McKenzie Roller: He's a good person.
McKenzie Roller: He's a person.
McKenzie Roller: He's a human.
McKenzie Roller: You have to respect them enough to have a conversation'.
McKenzie Roller: And in that conversation, they disrespect you or disagree on something that is basic to who you are.
McKenzie Roller: Fine.
McKenzie Roller: move forward from that as you choose to, but at least be willing to have those conversations.
McKenzie Roller: I don't know.
McKenzie Roller: It's such a weird -- even saying that I'm like, 'Wait, is that okay'?
McKenzie Roller: and your every move right now is more meaningful, I think, than it has been in the past.
Stephanie Raible: I think, selfishly, from my perspective, I wish more people thought like you, because I
Stephanie Raible: do think part of what is getting us in trouble is the fact that people are going into bubbles willingly.
Stephanie Raible: And I think that's been the biggest change in, in your right to say that 2016 was a little bit of a 'mass exodus' especially
Stephanie Raible: on social media where people really, really started disconnecting from people that they felt were 'on the other side'.
Stephanie Raible: And it really was something that people clamped down into their news sources a little bit more.
Stephanie Raible: New organic news sources came out because of the fact that people felt like certain media sources weren't speaking to their values, their perspectives.
Stephanie Raible: Yeah.
Stephanie Raible: It's, it's an interesting time to say the least.
McKenzie Roller: You can find something to validate your opinion anywhere.
McKenzie Roller: That seems like fact.
McKenzie Roller: And if you're surrounding yourself with people and only talking and communicating with people who have the same beliefs as you,
McKenzie Roller: you're only going to see things and hear things that validate your opinion and your beliefs and the beliefs of those around you.
McKenzie Roller: That's what makes it seem black and white, right?
McKenzie Roller: That's why those conversations are just important to have and why you can't just surround yourself by people who agree with you.
McKenzie Roller: And that's the problem people have, but things like Tik Tok and Instagram, like, they are built to show you exactly what you agree with.
McKenzie Roller: You can keep scrolling, like the algorithm on Tik Tok, supposed to show you things that you agree with and like to watch and keep going.
McKenzie Roller: So, if you only watch things that are pro Trump or if you only watch things that are pro Biden, that's
McKenzie Roller: what's going to continue to show up on your page and you're going to be like, 'Oh, everyone believes this'.
McKenzie Roller: There is not an unbiased news media source anymore.
McKenzie Roller: I don't even know if there was, but it's important to like spend time, I think, really looking at multiple sources.
McKenzie Roller: Like, don't just look at Fox.
McKenzie Roller: Don't just look at CNN.
McKenzie Roller: Don't just look at New York times, like read them all because they'll all have different takes on the same situation.
McKenzie Roller: And it's important to understand, I think, those different perspectives.
McKenzie Roller: Again, it might not change your vote, but it's just important to be informed , not just be in an echo chamber.
McKenzie Roller: Because no one learns in an echo chamber
Stephanie Raible: And you're right , I'm someone that reads a lot of different news sources just for the sake of
Stephanie Raible: what are other people absorbing right now, especially because my family itself and my extended family is so divided.
Stephanie Raible: Sometimes, I'll look on news media on either side to kind of say like, Whoa, what is this person exposed to?
Stephanie Raible: So, then say, if I go to see them, I have at least some sense of preparation as to what is the language that I might hear.
Stephanie Raible: And even though we try to avoid politics, it, it doesn't always end up that way.
Stephanie Raible: In switching gears, you've been doing all of this during COVID.
Stephanie Raible: I remember last time, our conversation focused a lot on the earlier days of COVID and where it led you into September.
Stephanie Raible: and now we're several months into the fall where we're getting a huge spike.
Stephanie Raible: What's life like for you now?
McKenzie Roller: For me, I'm working from home, so it didn't affect my work that much.
McKenzie Roller: That was going to happen anyways, like Vote.org works remotely COVID didn't change that.
McKenzie Roller: So, my work didn't change there, but my work in the community in Wilmington, definitely had to navigate when to wear a mask.
McKenzie Roller: When is it okay to not wear a mask.
McKenzie Roller: Basically never, but navigating that was interesting because people have different perspectives
McKenzie Roller: and it's almost like a norm when you enter a space, like, 'How are we treating COVID here'?
McKenzie Roller: Which is so terrible.
McKenzie Roller: Right?
McKenzie Roller: But it's like, I can't even believe I'm saying that, but that's what it feels like when
McKenzie Roller: you enter a space right now, it's like, 'Okay, are we all wearing masks all the time?
McKenzie Roller: And are we the hand sanitizing everything?
McKenzie Roller: Or are we just going to stay socially distanced and like just stay outside.
McKenzie Roller: Like, I don't know.
McKenzie Roller: It's completely different feelings.
McKenzie Roller: And when you enter a space, which is just that's wrong because science says like wear mask
McKenzie Roller: and do it always in protect everyone around you, but that's not what's happening right now.
McKenzie Roller: Obviously, we're seeing the spikes and the numbers and things like that.
McKenzie Roller: So in my life, when I went Downtown to engage with the community, it was always in person still.
McKenzie Roller: So, that was my in-person interactions.
McKenzie Roller: Like other than that, like go to the grocery store and stuff, everyone wears a mask and things like that.
McKenzie Roller: But it was a tricky, like 'We're outside.
McKenzie Roller: We should have masks on.
McKenzie Roller: We're not really near each other.
McKenzie Roller: Some people aren't wearing masks.
McKenzie Roller: Do I wear a mask'?
McKenzie Roller: Like, navigating that was really interesting.
McKenzie Roller: Again, I feel like it shouldn't even be a question, but that's what it feels like right now.
Stephanie Raible: And the hard thing is meeting new people too.
Stephanie Raible: I imagine you're meeting a lot of new people and you're like, I don't know this person.
Stephanie Raible: Are they going to perceive me a certain way?
Stephanie Raible: If I wear a mask too long or not long enough.
McKenzie Roller: Yes!
McKenzie Roller: And it's such a weird thing, because again, it shouldn't even be a question we should just be wearing masks all the time, but it holds this
McKenzie Roller: extra meaning for whatever reason that like, says like, 'Are you someone that really like believes COVID is like a terrible thing right now?
McKenzie Roller: Or is it like, no, it's, it's fine.
McKenzie Roller: We're all good.
McKenzie Roller: We're going to be okay'.
McKenzie Roller: It's this such a weird social dynamic right now of what it means to wear a mask or not.
McKenzie Roller: IWhich, again, like it shouldn't even be a question.
McKenzie Roller: But that's definitely what it feels like right now.
McKenzie Roller: And I think, other than that, like how has COVID affected me, like, I'm living with young people.
McKenzie Roller: So, personally, like within our group, it's felt less stressful because I'm not living with parents who are in the high risk category.
McKenzie Roller: But now, I'm with my parents again.
McKenzie Roller: So like, last week I got tested, and then tried to stay relatively quarantine to try to avoid that.
McKenzie Roller: So, there's a different level of responsibility and like stress that comes with that like seeing my parents again and then living with people
McKenzie Roller: who are in the high risk category, which again, isn't necessarily fair just because like, you don't want to be part of the spread period.
McKenzie Roller: It's easy when you don't have people immediately in your life that aren't going, like don't have the potential to be really negatively impacted by it.
McKenzie Roller: So, that's weird too.
McKenzie Roller: Because again, like you should never be contributing to the spread, but it's just less stressful when
McKenzie Roller: you know that there's a good chance that if anyone that you're living with got it, it would be okay.
McKenzie Roller: Now, I don't know because I'm living with parents again.
Stephanie Raible: Well, let me ask you about that then.
Stephanie Raible: So , leading up to a full holiday season, and I say full because, for those outside of the States,
Stephanie Raible: we have Thanksgiving and that very quickly rolls into Christmas time and Hanukkah and New Year's.
Stephanie Raible: So we have maybe about six weeks of festivities and COVID has put this shadow over it.
Stephanie Raible: Mackenzie, how are you going to spend the holidays?
McKenzie Roller: Right.
McKenzie Roller: Yeah, we still don't know yet.
McKenzie Roller: I mean, it's hard to say that we're not going to see our grandparents, for Christmas when we have for years.
McKenzie Roller: And like, we don't want them to celebrate Christmas by themselves.
McKenzie Roller: We also don't want to get them sick.
McKenzie Roller: Are we all going to get tested and then quarantine for two weeks like leading up to going to see them or we just not going to see them?
McKenzie Roller: I still don't think we know.
McKenzie Roller: I will be home.
McKenzie Roller: I know that.
McKenzie Roller: I will be with my immediate family, like my mom and my dad and my sister . We're actually spending Thanksgiving in North Carolina.
McKenzie Roller: So they drove down here to see me, and so, I'm just with them right now.
McKenzie Roller: But then like, I'm going to Houston.
McKenzie Roller: We can get into that in more detail later, but I am living in Houston for the next portion of my gap year in January,
McKenzie Roller: but need to bring my car there now because I don't want to drive home to Connecticut to drive back to Houston.
McKenzie Roller: So I'm driving down next week with my dad to Houston to drop my car and things off at the house I'm staying at and then flying back to Connecticut.
McKenzie Roller: So flying during COVID I haven't done that yet.
McKenzie Roller: Not sure how I'm feeling about that, but when I get home, I'm going to have to quarantine and get tested, and so there's
McKenzie Roller: that extra layer of like uncertainty and just stress with traveling and making sure that you're getting places safely.
McKenzie Roller: That's like the biggest thing that's been on my radar and it's weird because like, I'm going to Houston, I'm working with a program in Houston.
McKenzie Roller: That's supposed to be in person.
McKenzie Roller: But numbers are spiking everywhere.
McKenzie Roller: And so they'll probably move online and Houston might move into a lockdown.
McKenzie Roller: So I might be getting to a new place and be stuck in a house on my computer for the whole time,
McKenzie Roller: which that hasn't totally registered, but I'm like, I don't want to be stuck at home either.
McKenzie Roller: And so why not be stuck in a new place?
McKenzie Roller: I don't know.
McKenzie Roller: So that's been a lot of stress and uncertainty again, which.
McKenzie Roller: Knew it was coming.
McKenzie Roller: It's just always like another slap in the face.
McKenzie Roller: Like, yep.
McKenzie Roller: We gotta just roll with it again and not have a plan and be okay with it.
McKenzie Roller: And just take what comes.
McKenzie Roller: So, that's been like overshadowing, all of this other holiday planning.
McKenzie Roller: That's like, I know I'm going home.
McKenzie Roller: That's all I know right now.
McKenzie Roller: And I know I'll be with my immediate family.
McKenzie Roller: We might go see my grandparents.
McKenzie Roller: We might not.
McKenzie Roller: Yeah, numbers are spiking and not even all college students are home yet, which that'll also be another spike.
McKenzie Roller: I'm sure everywhere, as people are leaving their college campuses and may or may not be bringing COVID home.
McKenzie Roller: So yeah.
Stephanie Raible: Well, Mackenzie, thank you so much for being here with us today.
Stephanie Raible: And next time when we talk to you, you'll be living your Houston, Texas adventure, so we'll get to hear a little bit more about that next time.
Stephanie Raible: This was episode 8 of our second season with McKenzie Roller from the United States.
Stephanie Raible: If you want to hear McKenzie’s original episode from Season 1, find it on your favorite podcasting platform or our website, recordofchange.com.
Stephanie Raible: Stay tuned for the next episode of Record of Change when we will listen to our end-of-season, “holiday special” where the Record of Change
Stephanie Raible: team will share a hot cup of cocoa together and discuss their impressions of Season 2 and how their lives have shifted since the last season.
Stephanie Raible: Well, the cocoa is optional, but it will be fun, so stay tuned!
Stephanie Raible: If you like this episode, or Record of Change in general, please share it in your networks and get in touch with us to give us feedback!
Stephanie Raible: Make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast provider or find out more about the podcast on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or our website, recordofochange.com.
Stephanie Raible: This podcast is supported with and by members of the Bosch Alumni Network, a community that brings together
Stephanie Raible: former and current fellows, grantees and staff members of the Robert Bosch Stiftung and its partners.
Stephanie Raible: Thank you for listening!